Chances are, like me, someone has spent a lot of your time trying to convert you. It seems a theist can’t walk past you without trying to change your mind. Some of them think they are doing a good deed, and others just feel like they are superior and you are lowly evil scum. So I thought that it would be great to go over the arguments which are, one after another, as absurd as the former. From infinite regression, to fallacy after fallacy, they come loaded with bold lavish statements that no one could ever prove/dis-prove.
By now you might want to wrangle all of the theists who have absorbed your time, into a corner and give them all the same argument in one place. It would save endless hours of listening to them one by one, try and convert you to which ever religion they belong. I know that I have faced many arguments. Most of them more frustratingly ignorant than the one before it. So I want to go over what they don’t work and how sound thinking goes wrong.
The argument from infinite regression.
This one always gets me. So god came from nothing, to create everything from nothing. Please tell me more.
If space was a vacuum and there was nothing, then today there would be nothing, but there must have been energy in some form for it to be here now. Not even a magical being gets to use nothing to make everything. We could try this, and physicists have. They have smashed atoms, thinking that it was the smallest matter. They wanted to see what happens when you destroy energy/matter. What they got was more matter. Now some people say, but god has always existed, he just created everything else. This argument fails at god has always existed. Where did he exist? In the non matter of space, that didn’t yet exist? So he just summed up matter, to make himself so that eventually he could magically sum up matter to make a whole universe. That’s pretty complex even for a god.
Science is not claiming that everything came from nothing. We already know that it is not possible to get matter from nothing. That is why it is not possible to get energy from nothing, or super powers from nothing. We don’t get anything from nothing. Energy in is equal to energy out, mass in is not equal to mass out, but is equal to energy plus mass out. See you don’t lose or gain, just change. It is not possible for anything to have come from nothing, but then we have discovered nothing was never nothing. Yet you claim your god did make it all from nothing. That can’t happen or there could be another god making himself from nothing, and then every god could be true, and so could many universes. See how it is infinite. Science claims to not have all the answers, because we don’t and we may never.
That is far removed from a super being showed up into nothing and then bam-ed everything into being. What you accuse us of religion, you are very guilty of doing. We may not have the answer, but then we never pretended to. Which brings me to the next point.
Science doesn’t pretend to have the answers. We have the answers we have, until such time as new evidence arrives, and then we will update ourselves. It is the religious making claims for which no one has the answers, they don’t have them, and I don’t have them, but then science is not making the claims.
Extraordinary claims can be dismissed, without extraordinary evidence~Hitchens
Anyone who claims to know beyond a shadow of a doubt, or on divine information, or by reasons that can’t be shown with evidence, should be dismissed. Don’t even debate them. People who come with these extraordinary claims are already convinced they are right and are not looking to be proven wrong. They know they are right without evidence, and with only exaggerated claims which can never be proven or dis-proven. So it is best to not negotiate with ignorance of this extreme. It is a waste of time. One which most of us can live without.
Epistemology and ontologically not sound
What this is, is big words for the next failure. Let me explain. Religious people say, we have brains so that is proof of god. Well beyond the extraordinary claims which should be dismissed, they claim to know why we have a brain and for what reason. Which is flawed in the science and understanding. That assumes the brain evolved with a direct purpose. This can not be stated as a factual claim. The brain evolved, and we give it the purpose. How can I dare say such a thing?
Well look at the evidence. Protists, protozoa, and bacteria can all do many of the things we assume a brain evolved for. The can reproduce, gather resources to self sustain, send signals to others close by, they can do gene recombination, express waste products, and many more things. But they can’t think, drive a car or sit there reading this blog. But we didn’t need to evolve these skills. What did we need to do. Well like other mobile multi cellular organisms we need to move, collect resources and procreate, it seems that we have a brain for the same reasons other organisms don’t. See we evolved a brain, and then the purpose came. We did not need it, but it evolved. Just like other organisms, bears have never been known to calculate the amount of stars in the sky, but we can at least attempt.
See we got the neurons, to help with our tasks, they made survival easier. They were selected for because they made the organism survive, and so brains survived. We have since then given them a purpose. In fact our brain is not the same brain as the Neanderthals, or Homo Habilis, or Erectus. It is changing over time to suit the purposes we have given it. We are in fact selecting for better brains. If you say this is not true, then ask your self how many mentally handicapped people we want having offspring? Ask how many of them are selected as the ideal mate. They are beautiful humans, we love and care for them, but none of us sees them as the ideal mate.
So brains are not proof for god, they are not proof for anything cosmic looking down on us. They are not even a good argument for why we have them. They are structures that help us be mobile, help us to see, help us to defend ourselves, but really we would still be around in some form without them. The conscious state, well we have given a purpose to that as well, but that is for another time.
The point is that there are all these arguments which have no basis and foundation in reality. They have no evidence, just extraordinary claims. Ones which should all be dismissed. It would be hard to convert me with logic that is as flawed as any other religion, ideology or nonsense that is floating around. Without claims founded in evidence, tested, and proven time and again it would be absurd to ask anyone to follow them.
Many arguments are so tightly wrapped up in how “right” they are that the person using them does not see how flawed they are. But logic has sound arguments. It may take a while to get through to the millions of people who are bound and gagged in outrageous claims, and indeed they should be ignored. If you have to enter into a debate with them, first knock the wind out of them with calling them out on their outrageous claims. Then keep presenting facts one by one. But for the most of you, it is a well meant argument which will cost you hours of life in needless ways. While I applaud your attempt, the fact is, it is just attempt.
I have been through many of the arguments. Some of them as bad as Dr.Naik who uses imaginary doctors, like Salisbury, and WhiteMeat, which both sound like he has been eating too much American food. He teaches people these grand claims and completely illogical arguments that unless you have substantial time, you can’t decipher. But anyone with one brain cell can tell you how flawed and mindless they are.
I can’t be swayed by arguments which rely on faith, extraordinary claims, philosophical claims with no evidence, or worse because you said so. I don’t feel all good about Jesus, or god, and I never did. In fact the only time I felt something was missing was when I was trying to cling to religion. Being an atheist has made me stronger, smarter, clear headed and fulfilled knowing I am alone and can stand on my own. Now that is something your religion can’t do for me. No I won’t come begging, I won’t repent on my death bed. I won’t care if there even is a heaven and I can’t get in. Just more fancy hell for me and all the smart assed scientists I love so much.
But I will tell you this. I am the enemy of religion, and if you doubt me then you obviously don’t know me.