Rachel Johnson

Atheist Blogger- the godlessvagina / Podcaster the pink atheist

The Dark Side Of Feminism

54 Comments

 

I am not a fan of bashing feminism. I am a feminist at heart, and always will be. I know what people think of me and assume. I am not blinded by a self delusion. It has come to my attention, however, that there is a part of feminism that needs addressed. I saw a clip of The Talk in which Sharon Osborne talked about the humor in a man having his penis cut off by his wife, while sleeping, and how funny she thought it was. While I support comedy and joking, the clarity was evident that most of the women on the panel thought it was fine and funny to do this horrible thing to a man.

The fact is that domestic violence is serious, be it on the part of the man or the woman, and men face it too. I don’t find that humorous. Men often don’t speak out about these things because society sets unreal standards for men. They are told they are stronger and can handle women. When a woman is committing violent acts against you to only way to “handle” that is to call the police or get violent. Since it is the police telling men to not be weak, the only thing you are really telling a man is that he should be hitting the woman. Does that make any sense? There are men out there in this world who believe that abusing a woman is a horrible thing and won’t commit the act. Why should we be telling them we hold a lesser standard for them than woman, or their value is less than a woman. It is absurd at best, and horrendous at worst.

There is a faction of women out there who seriously believe that causing harm to a man is a payback for the harm that has been done to women over the years. But we are talking about people, individuals. In other words, men. I realize there has been a sever amount of tolerance on the part of society for men abusing women for hundreds of years. Religious doctrines in fact allow the perverse behavior and even condone it. Men who abuse women are a lowsome faction of the male population, and so are women. I know of several cases of men being abused by their counterparts and helplessly enduring the agony of being an abused husband.

We need to regard this behavior with disdain, and utter contempt, as we would for any woman suffering the abuse. Regardless of gender, age, sexual orientation, and what society expects, we need to expect better. I can’t imagine how women would have reacted had this been a man cutting off a woman’s clitoris and throwing it into the garbage disposal. Would the laughs ensue? Likely the man would face a whole society filled with rage at the horrible act, and he would have gotten the most severe punishment allowed by law. This woman took the time to drug, tie up, mutilate her husband and then call the cops. This was obviously premeditated and a deplorable act on the part of a human being. She should face the highest punishment as allowed by law. No man should suffer such a trauma. No woman who calls herself a true feminist should condone such a horribly violent act.

This idea of oppressing men and their true nature, of dominating them and disregarding their humanity is lowsome. I have nothing good to say about a woman who thinks violence is the solution. When domestic violence occurs everyone suffers. There is no difference in the act, but possibly in the severity. I say possibly because just as men can use other methods of violence, such as tools or household items to abuse, so can women. The difference in emotional abuse and mental does not exist. The fact is a person who is violent can also be a very loving and kind person when they are not violent. It is all part of the cycle. Children in this situation don’t always differentiate between whom is doing the violent act. All they know is there is violence in the home and they often become victims of the violence as well. The trauma to all of the members of a family can be life long and devastating.

I am an advocate for equality. In all areas of life I hold all things with the same regard. What I will not allow to happen to women, I would obviously not allow for men. It behooves me to believe that so many women justified this behavior. At the end of the clip the show was back on and the women were explaining their position and they meant no harm. But by that time they had sent a message to women around the country and possibly the world that men deserve this kind of violence. What a message to send. Somehow for being born with male genitalia they should be punished. For being born to privilege they should suffer. Not in my mind, or my actions.

The equality us women have fought so hard for can not come at the expense of men. Harming, and damaging them will not teach them to respect us, and degrading them for their biological nature will only add to the resistance men have to change. If you don’t like the behavior of the men around you, then set the standards higher. You are in control of your actions, and I have no respect for women who hit, and hurt men. Just as I have none for men who do the same. Mutilating a person is a crime, and equal to other crimes. I can understand how a rape victim would want to cut off the genitalia of a man who violently violated her, but the moment you commit that act you become as bad as the person who did the horrible act yourself. We are not a society who feeds into the degradation of other humans and nor should we be. We do not abide by the religious ideology of eye for an eye. It simply does not work.

Men are feeling, thinking, caring humans too. I realize there are exceptions to that. There are men who feel no remorse for the abuse they put upon women, and with denial and delusion completely justify it. Just as their women counterparts do. What I have heard from men who have faced this abuse is how it hurt and broke them, just the way a woman is broken by facing violence. It is time to eliminate the stereotyping of males as perpetrators and not victims. Just because men have a bigger size and more strength does not mean they are capable of violent acts.

Abuse does not begin over night. There is a lot of grooming and conditioning which goes into domestic violence, and by the time it first occurs the conditions have been set for it to happen. People who are violent are often out of control in their lives, and seek to gain control by what ever method is available. This can lead to severe acts of abuse. Often times the victim is in love with the person, and hoping to fix the situation or appease the abuser. What they don’t know is that this is not their fault and a problem with the abuser. Victims face blame, shaming, emotional, mental abuse to the point they have little to no self esteem. If you think men are not capable of facing this, then you need to observe men further.

I find it deplorable, horrendous and rancid on the part of feminists who support acts of violence against men. For violence to end in our society we have to face it as a society. Laws need to be eliminated which punish males only and defend women who are abusers. Women who commit violent acts should be arrested and face time in jail. They should be sent to counseling and treated as their male counter parts in the abuse situation and we need to be fair and just with men who want to speak out about their abuse. A man is not a better person because he can “handle” his wife, no more than a woman with a knife is for “handling” her husband.

I support fairness and equality. Most of all I stand by the men out there who lack the social and legal respect we afford to women. It is not correct for anyone to face violence against them in any form or manner. Instead we should be working to eliminate abuse at its core, and face it as a united front. We should be ready to step in and shelter, comfort, and aid men in their struggle to not face abuse as we are with women. It is simply not a weakness on the part of men, it is their strength that they can face the horrors of abuse and survive as women have done, and I applaud them for not stooping to the low and ignorant ways of being an abuser. While I recognize that abuse is a two way street, it needs to be eliminated. So for the guys out there, I got your backs too and will fight for you, beside you and with you for equality. That is what a feminist does. Or maybe I am just a humanist who sees equality as being equal in entity. Perhaps when women start rationalizing what they are doing more men will join, until then we have a lot of work to do, and this is my beginning.

 

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Author: Rachel Johnson

I am a writer about atheist issues. Separation of the church and state. Women and their right to choose, and sex. I talk about all of the "taboos" of modern life as well as evolution and science.

54 thoughts on “The Dark Side Of Feminism

  1. Thank you.

    One of the vicious truths about the modern feminist movement is that, for at least the last two decades, it has been more about “getting back at men” than it has actually seeking equality between the genders.

    It is a rare and precious thing when a woman steps forward and admits that men are victims too. When men do it, they are accused of demeaning women, undercutting the “protection of women”, or simply whining. So we need more women taking a stand like this.

    • I’ve been in contact with a couple hundred feminists… there is nothing about the movement that has anything to do with “getting back at men”. Feminism is what makes this a discussion. Rigid gender roles is what makes people think it’s okay to mutilate a person’s genitals. The people who respond to mutilation with “you go girl!” are not people who think men are equal, and therefore they are not my feminists. Luckily for me I’ve never seen a self-declared feminist react that way.

      • That is a “no true Scotsman fallacy”, and sorry you don’t get to define who is a feminist. Nor do I, if they identify themselves as such, and have those views, then that is what they are and who they are.

      • Then let me ask you a question.

        If, as you imply, feminism is all about gender equality and making things good for everyone, when was the last time organized feminism took to the streets or lobbied to champion a gender issue that only affected men?

        Think long and hard about it. But don’t hold your breath while you’re doing so.

    • Spot on Chef… Philosophically feminism is about equality for women… In practice it’s about angry women projecting all their pain at men.

  2. Really , a great article, I must post it on my wall. Thank you for giving the public this other side from a feminist. This is rare.

  3. Is Sharon Osbourne a feminist then? When did that happen?

    I think you might have confused woman and feminist – they aren’t the same thing.

    • I saw all the women on there laughing and making jokes. Even if she isn’t a feminist there are ones who are and think this is right. One lady yelled from the audience that he deserved it. The link is in her name, and no there was no confusion. This is a show for women and about women, and this is what they talk about. I don’t care if your a feminist or not, honestly if you represent this form of thinking, then you should not be influencing women or speaking for them.

      • OK, I agree with you that laughing at violence isn’t right, however this has nothing to do with feminism does it? So maybe edit your article and stop blaming feminism for this? Calling what Sharon Osbourne did “the dark side of feminism” is simply misleading.

        • I find it insulting that you not only deny that a faction of feminism exists that is anti- male, and think that you can say who is a feminist, but most of all have the audacity to tell me to edit my article just to suit your perspective. Wow, now I know that you can not only not accept the reality but want to silence someone else for seeing it. I know of feminists who believe the world would be better without men, and seek to end their existence. I find it ironic at best. I am not altering my post for anyone and yes there is a dark side to some factions of feminism and I refuse to censor myself to suit anyone.

        • Well your article is wrong. What you saw Sharon Osbourne doing has nothing to do with feminism. Twisting around so you could use this horrible event as a springboard for a rant against feminism is what is offensive.

        • Show me where I called her a feminist, and where I said feminism is bad or wrong or immoral?

        • You called the article “The Dark Side of Feminism”, which kind of implies this has something to do with feminism, which… it does not. Unless you’re going to make the assertion that feminism caused this, or that these women are feminists?

        • What are women who speak about womnen and their issues, and what relates to them, and I know for a fact one of them is a feminist.

      • Why is it then, that Sharon Osborne was allowed to keep her job after making such a disgustingly abhorrent comment, not to mention her so-called apology for it afterwards, when men who have made rather ill-advised but comparatively mild comments directed towards women, have been sacked almost on the spot?
        Why does the media apparently condone such vile hatred towards men, when a man caught on air commenting something along the lines of “she has a nice bottom” receives tons of scorn and pays for it with his entire career?

  4. Thanks Rachel,
    Delphyne__ Does it matter that she is or is not part of the movement? I mean the majority of the comments made on the subject are outside of the movement. By your own analogy that means that all the men that don’t take part in the movement can treat women however they feel. Not at all cool with me.
    I am for holding people accountable for their actions. The action in the video that Rachel was discussing is Sharon and the rest of the panel questioning and commenting what did he do? He must have done _____. I guess that’s ok with you. The point is flip the gender of all involved and the show hosts would all be working at walmart right now. However nothing more than a little chatter surfaces from this and you want to bring up that she isn’t a part of the movement?

    • I think it is very reflective of societies dealing with men and not accepting their being abused. It is not relevant if she is a feminist leader, a feminist, or just a woman. She obviously sees nothing wrong with female on male violence. It suggests that for the flaw of being born male you should suffer. I am adamantly against this.

      What is more disturbing is how not one woman said how horrible and twisted she found this with five female hosts and an audience of women.

      I don’t care if this happened a year ago or today. The point and lesson remains true, it is not okay to abuse other PEOPLE. We are ALL human beings.

  5. Great post! As a woman, I am horrified by women who laugh at men who are on the receiving end of domestic violence. It is an outrage; thank you for speaking out against women like Sharon Osbourne.

  6. Shaon’s crude dick jokes have NOTHING to do with feminism. NOTHING. So any point one can try to make that says it DOES have ANYthing to do with feminism, is WRONG. Start over, try again, total fail, wrong.

    • The point, which obviously missed you, is that it is not okay to abuse men. Dick jokes are fine but saying men deserve genital mutilation or abuse is ignorant.

      • I said it was a crude joke and nothing I said could be construed to mean that I am OK with violence against anybody. I’m not stupid so do not treat me like I am.

      • …and are even the “dick jokes” okay? I for one have been sickened for as long as I can remember by jokes pertaining to that beautiful part of women that has gone by so many names, some complimentary, some not. Men’s genitalia deserve the same respect and appreciation that women’s do…. It has been time for far long, for us to learn that mutual respect for all parts of each other, including our Hearts and Minds…
        Abuse can come from anyone… whether one has an “innie” or an “outty”… Thank you for recognizing and speaking up on that….

  7. Oh and way to condone it by saying it is not feminism. After all, your whole point was that. Not that it is not okay, not that you are horrified violence happens to men, but hey she is not a feminist. Nice.

    • I did not condone it. You know that. Please don’t be dishonest.

    • You can’t talk about feminism and then get mad when someone addresses the feminism aspect of your article. Or rather, you can, it just doesn’t make much sense.

      • I can get mad when people tell me what is and isn’t feminism without taking into account that this type of attitude and faction of feminism exists.

      • But your reply states that you think there is no form of feminism which is radical, man hating, and blaming. Then tell me about the feminists who don’t want to be kept at home, want to have babies incubated in incubators, have free nannies who care for the children and social programs which make it so they don’t have to worry about their kids? Why don’t you tell me all about feminism, and all the different types?

        • Your post is nearly incoherent, but what I am getting is that expect me to come in here and write paragraphs and paragraphs of information about various types of feminists and what they want. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so, but there are a lot of feminists online that you can follow on blogs and such. I honestly have no idea what you are looking for here. I simply responded to your post. I did not post anything here that would indicate I have the desire to answer for the billions of women or millions of feminists in the world.

        • Then don’t try to define who is and isn’t a feminist. You don’t have the right to decide for people where they stand. The fact is these are women talking about women and their equality. I took sociology and already know about the sects of feminism. I know why there is a lack of unity. I know about the gender bias of many of them.

          Most of all calling a post incoherent when it truly states a clear point is absurd at best.

          Besides at no point did I call Sharron a feminist. I was talking to feminists who feel this way. Obviously the one who is incoherent is the one who can rant about something they clearly didn’t read.

  8. I agree with the whole sentiment of the article wholeheartedly I’m not sure what this has to do with feminism though, Rache. Of course men face domestic violence, rape etc. NONE of which is trivial. But prejudice against men is NOT feminism, it is antithetical to feminism, by definition.

    And none of the feminists I know of condones this sort of nonsense. No way does feminism imply that women are flawless beings who are never prejudiced against men. That’s not what feminism is.

    • I didn’t think any would, but click the video and find me one woman who says in it that this is wrong. Before they come on the next WEEK to appologize, and the fact is some feminist think men deserve what they get. They do and listen to the crowd. It has everything to do with feminism and our role in how men are seen.

      • You realize, of course, that the women who appear in that video do not represent either feminism or women at large, correct? Because you are not acting like you do.

        • Who represents feminism? Do we all represent it when talking about equal rights? Or does someone with a title have to do that, because to this date there is no leader in feminism because variations of it exist, and moreover attitudes like this exist about men. So who qualifies as a feminist?

      • Let me say this again, for instance one identify themselves as a skeptic and rationalist, and they might still believe in lets say Intelligent Design or such nonsense. Does that mean there’s a ‘dark side’ to rationalism and skepticism? It merely means that the person in question ignorant and is capable of doublethink. Even if the person in question is say, RD or Sam Harris.

        There’s various branches of thoughts when it comes to feminism on how to achieve equality, but one the fundamental premise of feminism, that you OUGHT to accept is that “advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic EQUALITY to men.” There’s no two ways around it.

        I hope you get my point.

        • Just a PS: That’s not to say, of course, there is no issues within feminism as a movement. There is marginalization of people of color, there is an issue with transphobia/transmisogyny (especially in radfem circles), to name a few. But this is not even debatable. No one has monopoly over feminism, and if someone condones nonsense like the above they CAN’T be feminists. People who condone discrimination against men is as much of a feminist as Bin Laden is a humanist.

        • Nathan, that is a no true Scotsman fallacy.

      • What’s even more sickening is Sharon can’t get through her apology without cracking up.

    • Read the RadFem Hub. These were prominent women like a professor at the University of Edinburgh and an author with Simon & Shuster openly discussion genocide of males. A male with the name of Agent Orange, however, got in and found out their identities. Expect little professional consequence as they will be sheltered by feminists who hold the gateways of the anti-discrimination laws and who basically agree with the genocide of males.

      We must realize that activists are never about equality; they are solely for the “gimmies” to their faction alone. We must treat all activists as rabid factionalists, and there must be balance with males from another rabid faction. If not, we get a negative quality of life for males like the one arrested NINE TIMES in Delaware on false accusations by his ex, and forced to wear an ankle-bracelet before there was even any conviction for anything. We would scream if a Muslim was suspected of being a terrorist and forced to be “tagged” this way against his civil-rights; who is screaming for the men?

      http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/radfem-hub-the-underbelly-of-a-hate-movement/

  9. The point is, feminists remain silent when faced with violence against men. If there had been a TV show with men laughing about violence against women, feminists would be up in arms, but when women laugh at male victims of violence, most feminists ( except for Rachel) remain silent.

  10. Reblogged this on Why I Am Not A Feminist and commented:
    This is a terrific post from Rachel Johnson- I wish that I had written it, but I didn’t, so I am reblogging it. 🙂

  11. This whole thread basically boils down to “I saw some people on TV make a joke I didn’t like, and now you all must answer for it.” No, just no. All feminists everywhere do not have to answer for some ex rocker’s washed up wife and her unfunny “sense of humor.” Sorry, we don’t. It has nothing to do with us.

    • Yea, but there were 5 women there, and a full audience of women. Lol, but please go on. I am sure not a one of them who clapped, laughed, and shouted he deserved it was a feminist.

      Jokes are funny, but statements like, “What did he do to deserve it,” and, “He deserved it” are not jokes. They are statements. Since no one person holds the authority on feminism we all are responsible for behaving in a way that does not define us as a faction of extremists who are out to punish men, but the idea is obviously alive and well with some feminists.

  12. ANM: no one is suggesting that all feminists are responsible for what Sharon Osbourne says. We are asking why most feminists remain silent when Sharon Osbourne says what she says.

  13. Abusing others, no matter which gender abuses the other or even if it is within the same gender is simply WRONG. Men not only can get abused, but are abused in daily basis all over the World. If anything, a true feminist wouldn’t support women abusing men, because feminists believe in equality NOT SUPERIORITY. If anything, patriarchal society is the one that’s to be blamed for men not being able to voice their opinions on these issues simply because it’s considered more embarrassing for men to have been abused. Men are required by patriarchal society’s standard to be stronger; hence, they fear of seeming weaker. One example is that of my male friend, who was insulted by a University police for asking for a ride that students could legally get after certain hours during night time. He told her that he had to “man up”, as if there was no risk for men to walk alone at creepy areas during night time.

    While I agree with your arguments, I do not agree with the title of this post. Sure, there may be some women, who call them feminists, who would want to see men suffer, but the idea of wanting men to suffer goes outside feminism. If they were really a feminist they wouldn’t believe so. Remember, feminism is about equality not superiority, and whoever doesn’t believe this is not a feminist. Also, non of these women in the show are either a feminist or even a radical feminist. If anything they are sexist women, deeply drenched in the sexist patriarchal system that doesn’t want to believe men can be hurt by women, and finds pun in such brutal act.

  14. Though I am a man, I am an individual who doesn’t follow stereotypes. I don’t accept of unfair treatment on either side, and double that for abuse or there is no reason for the relationship. Some date with the notion that they refuse to love, and refuse to be hurt, so there are barriers set up preventing growth in the relationship (again pointless). I tend to stay away from people with extreme views on both sides, because outside of being male, I have loved ones that are men, and I have loved ones that are women.

    Looking at the show, and some of the women applauding and thinking light of the situation, simply shouts “Hey I unconsciously approve of crime towards men, because there must be a good reason”. If someone truly means that, I wouldn’t want them to be around me, and i’d be greatly concerned if they have boys to raise, in addition to that I wouldn’t want anything to do with Sharon O. either because the approval of violence doesn’t get the masses anywhere. Especially those easily mislead.

    Metaphorically, that’s scenario can be used in regards to racism, and that’s something I am also against.

    I talk to various other men, finding out why some do the crap that they do, and why others don’t set a higher standard in regards to the woman they date. Knowing its not all woman and men, I tell the woman and girls that I know and love (also), that one of the ground rules that must be put out there before a relationship occurs, is that you do NOT approve of abuse in your relationship. Horseplay is hazardous and should not be part of it either unless they are willing to take the risk of someone losing their temper. Communication is key and being aware of oneself on a daily basis just to make sure that we treat others the way we would like to be treated (or in a way that they would appreciate over that of which could be abusive).

    Being hit isn’t good, calling someone names isn’t good, giving each other space during heated times is a plus, along with counseling without the prideful notion that its only for people with serious problems. At times people just need perspective, and if some people think about it, there is nothing wrong with wanting to improve yourself, especially for a relationship that we value. That’s like someone constantly hitting a similar wall in each relationship they have, wondering what’s going on, and blaming their everyone else versus seeing if there is an opportunity for growth and change for the next relationship (wrong could have been done in the past, but see what can be done that would allow for change).

    Equality isn’t in full swing just yet, but it has to go both ways, weed OUT the stereotypes and all the other poisonous assumptions that may deceive and demonize an individual by grouping people together.

  15. Rachel,
    All I can really say right now is “Thank you”….. There is much darkness in an otherwise beautiful world. You have shone a light on one part of it that tends to get “swept under the rug”…. Violence exists, violence persists amongst all people, whether it comes in physical or non-physical forms, whether it comes from one gender or another…

    There have been many of us in the “male” part of this world who have been ready for a long time to embrace our dear beloved “other half” of this world in a deeply loving and respectful way….

    There are many among us who love it when women show us their intellgence, and we have been sickened when that intelligence has been put to the use of how to insult us more creatively, how to marginalize us, and how to abuse us in so many ways and to come up with even more ways (and “theories” even) to keep getting away with it…. and we have been sickened when men do the same to women, which makes it even more deeply hurtful when it is done to us, based simply on “what flavor of human body we happen to be living inside”…

    The divorce between mind and heart (and body) has been responsible for almost all the damage we humans have inflicted upon each other…. It continues to be responsible..

    It is very heartening to read an article written by a person where I see that “disconnect” being reconnected… Your writing, in my eyes, comes from a very active Heart working along with a very active Mind…. Thank you for not just reposting or requoting “theory”, but from writing from your own experience and your own deep beliefs and feelings…

    This world needs more like you…

  16. If it’s not OK for men to be men, because unreal standards in society bring them up against either physical or emotional violence, then who is feminism feminizing? Thank you for speaking out, and for the suggestion that more of us might speak our truth in the fight for real and meaningful equality.
    http://www.thanksalwaysreturns.net/Feminized.html

  17. The positions of fixed doors and windows can kitchen cabinets be replaced.

    Next, take away the dust and cobwebs out of all these factors.
    Not much to go off of. They are as well very easy to access.

  18. Wow Rachel, you seem to have a very clear and analytical mind, and an equally clear and courageous voice… kudos!
    BTW, luv hearing whenever folks call out the “no true Scotsman” fallacy, as syllogisms and other ‘self-referential’ arguments appear to be particularly fav excuses for ideologues these days, especially among those of the ‘narcissistic’ persuasion (aka, “it’s all about ME”).
    Molto gracie…

  19. Loathsome not lowsome…..but I heartily agree….

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